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Sina survey: “Why the Philippines insist on hard line over Huangyan incident?”

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  1. lolz
    May 9th, 2012 at 01:25 | #1

    I am in Tokyo right now and cannot access the video, but from the screenshot it looks like majority of the Filipinos are becoming more nationalist because they are emboldened by US.

    I think some of this has to do with the election cycle as well. While the China-bashers whine about the Chinese government manipulating the masses through nationalism, the fact of the matter is that often, politicians in democratic nations play the nationalist card far better than the CCP. Take the recent elections in Europe for example, nearly all of the winners ran on an anti-immigration, pro-xenophobia ticket. Philippines has its own share of domestic problems, such as massive corruption and worse, massive kidnappings. Focusing on China’s “aggression” gets the Filipino minds off the incompetence of their politicians and political system.

  2. Robert Thomas
    May 9th, 2012 at 03:10 | #2

    yinyang, you give the source of the survey, but do not state who has been surveyed. Without all the details of the survey, users may arrive at incorrect conclusions:

    Lolz’s comment reads, ‘it looks like majority of the Filipinos are becoming more nationalist because they are emboldened by US.’ It may be the case that they are, but that is not what the poll shows. The poll was not taken in the Phillipines. The poll is currently on the Sina English website. The results only show the opinions of the visitors to the Sina English site.

    @lolz

    Yes, politicians around the world appeal to nationalism. But, I have concerns about the following statement:

    ‘Take the recent elections in Europe for example, nearly all of the winners ran on an anti-immigration, pro-xenophobia ticket.’

    I must ask you to check your facts. Please state which elections you are referring to.

  3. lolz
    May 9th, 2012 at 04:44 | #3

    Robert Thomas :
    @lolz
    Yes, politicians around the world appeal to nationalism. But, I have concerns about the following statement:
    ‘Take the recent elections in Europe for example, nearly all of the winners ran on an anti-immigration, pro-xenophobia ticket.’
    I must ask you to check your facts. Please state which elections you are referring to.

    Here is a tutorial for those who don’t know how to use google.
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Europe+election+anti-immigration

  4. Robert Thomas
    May 9th, 2012 at 05:37 | #4

    @lolz
    If you really don’t value intelligent debate enough to check your facts, I shall do it for you.

    You stated:

    『Take the recent elections in Europe for example, nearly all of the winners ran on an anti-immigration, pro-xenophobia ticket.』

    In Greece:

    Golden Dawn (the Greek neo-Nazi party) won 21 seats out of 300.
    New Democracy won 108 seats on an anti-austerity ticket.

    In France:

    Hollande won, defeating Sarkozy and Le Pen (who both played to fears over immigration) also on an anti-austerity ticket.

    Do you still hold that ‘nearly all of the winners ran on an anti-immigration, pro-xenophobia ticket.’
    If so, the onus is on you to prove it.

  5. lolz
    May 9th, 2012 at 16:00 | #5

    Robert Thomas :
    @lolz
    If you really don’t value intelligent debate enough to check your facts, I shall do it for you.
    You stated:
    『Take the recent elections in Europe for example, nearly all of the winners ran on an anti-immigration, pro-xenophobia ticket.』
    In Greece:
    Golden Dawn (the Greek neo-Nazi party) won 21 seats out of 300.
    New Democracy won 108 seats on an anti-austerity ticket.
    In France:
    Hollande won, defeating Sarkozy and Le Pen (who both played to fears over immigration) also on an anti-austerity ticket.
    Do you still hold that ‘nearly all of the winners ran on an anti-immigration, pro-xenophobia ticket.’
    If so, the onus is on you to prove it.

    Robert Thomas, the point of my post was that politicians in democratic nations are using nationalism to gain political power, with Europe AS AN EXAMPLE. If you truly value intelligent debates you may want to refrain from attempts at thread-jacking and obvious trolling.

    I may have misstated that the winners of the most RECENT elections are on anti-immigration ticket, however any casual follower of European politics can tell you that xenophobic is gaining popularity fast and winning elections. Sarkozy only lost by 4 percentage points. New Democracy part in Greece ran mostly on anti-austerity ticket but has also playing anti-immigration politics to the voters. The dutch nationalist party was able to bring down the minority government and is the third largest political party in the region. The bottom line, xenophobia and nationalism is ingrained into European politics (as well as US politics I may add), why shouldn’t it be used to explain Philippino politics?

  6. Robert Thomas
    May 9th, 2012 at 16:07 | #6

    @lolz
    Nonsense, this is no attempt at thread-jacking. I was pointing out that your statement 『nearly all of the winners ran on an anti-immigration, pro-xenophobia ticket.』 was false. It was not something you ‘may’ have done, I was something that you definately did. You either did it knowing that it was false, or innocent of the fact that it was false, in which case you should be more careful in the future.

    If you really think this is thread-jacking, report it.

  7. May 9th, 2012 at 16:10 | #7

    I guess that mass killing in Norway is also selectively blocked by some.

  8. Robert Thomas
    May 9th, 2012 at 16:13 | #8

    @YinYang
    One nutjob as representative of the whole of Europe?

  9. Robert Thomas
    May 9th, 2012 at 16:23 | #9

    @YinYang
    Did you get a chance to read comment 2, which refers to how your post misled lolz? I was wondering if you could add some more information to it to make it more clear.

  10. May 9th, 2012 at 16:24 | #10

    @Robert Thomas
    Here is one from Switzerland. Do you need help looking into Italy, France, etc?

    Switzerland:
    http://articles.boston.com/2009-11-30/news/29267392_1_minarets-swiss-voters-muslim-minorities

    GENEVA – Swiss voters overwhelmingly approved a constitutional ban on minarets yesterday, barring construction of the iconic mosque towers in a surprise vote that put Switzerland at the forefront of a European backlash against a growing Muslim population.

  11. Robert Thomas
    May 9th, 2012 at 16:32 | #11

    @YinYang
    And how does this show that in the recent European elections, 『nearly all of the winners ran on an anti-immigration, pro-xenophobia ticket』?

    In Europe, immigration is an issue, religion is an issue. But they are not the most important issues when it comes to politics. The results I posted above show this. Lolz incorrectly stated that the recent elections were fought and won on anti-immigration and xenophobic policies.

  12. Robert Thomas
    May 9th, 2012 at 16:37 | #12

    @Robert Thomas
    Continuously diverting this thread away from the Sina Survey could be construed as ‘thread-jacking.’ Could I bring you back to the content of your topic in relation to my second post and how it misled Lolz?

  13. May 9th, 2012 at 16:45 | #13

    @Robert Thomas
    Thanks for pointing that out, though I don’t think lolz was confused about who is being surveyed.

    When a web site conducts a survey, I think it’s obvious enough people know it is the site’s readers being surveyed.

  14. Robert Thomas
    May 9th, 2012 at 16:48 | #14

    @YinYang
    No problem, I hope you can put some more information in to make it more clear. He wasn’t mistaken?

    ‘but from the screenshot it looks like majority of the Filipinos are becoming more nationalist because they are emboldened by US’

    Is this a correct assumption based on the survey?

  15. lolz
    May 9th, 2012 at 17:06 | #15

    Robert Thomas :
    @lolz
    Nonsense, this is no attempt at thread-jacking. I was pointing out that your statement 『nearly all of the winners ran on an anti-immigration, pro-xenophobia ticket.』 was false. It was not something you ‘may’ have done, I was something that you definately did. You either did it knowing that it was false, or innocent of the fact that it was false, in which case you should be more careful in the future.
    If you really think this is thread-jacking, report it.

    “Robert Thomas”, thread jacking means to deviating from the original discussion and that is something which you certainly have been doing not only on this topic but other topics as well (such as your repeated questioning and whining about moderation).

    Now to help you get back onto the topic, do you agree or disagree that nationalism and xenophobia are on the rise in European politics? Do you agree or disagree that such nationalist sentiments/politics are playing in Philippines as well in the South China Sea saga?

  16. Robert Thomas
    May 9th, 2012 at 17:16 | #16

    @lolz
    I indicated that offensive comments had been made. I passed on my concerns to the moderators. They dealt with these concerns. If you have a problem with any of this, take it up with them.

    Diverting the discussion again towards European politics when the topic concerns the Phillipines is thread-jacking.

    Now, to help you back to the topic, of course nationalism plays a part in territorial disputes. This is surely the case in the Phillipines. Is this not the case in China?

  17. Xiaoxiao
    May 9th, 2012 at 23:36 | #17

    @Robert Thomas
    I wonder why you can’t see it? The first sight I saw this article, I know what it means.

  18. Robert Thomas
    May 12th, 2012 at 04:04 | #18

    @Xiaoxiao
    Please read my comments carefully. I know what the survey shows. Lolz, however, drew an incorrect conclusion:

    ‘but from the screenshot it looks like majority of the Filipinos are becoming more nationalist because they are emboldened by US.’

  19. May 12th, 2012 at 08:04 | #19

    There might be a few more reasons why events have turned out this way:

    The Philippines becoming rich, but not rich enough.
    In the 60s, the Philippines was widely considered to be the most developed nation in ASEAN. Cursed by bad government, it ended up becoming the poorest by the 80s. Even to this day, PI is considered to be the ‘Mexico’ of the region — known for exporting their women to work as maids and for corruption. Because of this, PI could never stand tall among its ASEAN brothers.

    Thanks to China’s explosive growth in the last decade, the PI’s economy has been lifted along with the rest. Like a poor man who suddenly got some cash on his hands, he is eager to show off. Hence the current stand off. If PI was as poor as 5 years ago, its government wouldn’t even have time for foreign affairs. (Of course, to be fair here, the same is true for China. Nothing like that would have happened in the 1980s.)

    Testing the waters
    Another reason could be that the Aquino Government is trying to exploit anti-Chinese feelings in the West. And what better time than now? When China’s Hu is about to step down and has his hands full dealing with the Bo Xilai incident (at first) and the CGC incident (later).

    Picking Sides Early
    The Aquino Government might also have made a political calculation, on the back of Obama’s “Pivot to Asia” announcement, that it could not be friendly with both China and the US in the foreseeable future. Even the blind can see that there is a power struggle going on. While some countries like Malaysia want to stay neutral, some may want to pick sides early. Aquino III may look back fondly to the days when the PI was a major center of power in Southeast Asia because the US had a major base in the Philippines (even though economically they were piss poor). He could be thinking: “hey! Let’s get back to those days”.

    -SV

  20. colin
    May 12th, 2012 at 17:58 | #20

    So a self-proclaimed “plain housewife” is the leader of PH. If the PH masses are fine with international political lunacy demonstrated by this incident, then let’s hope they keep electing the leaders they deserve.

  21. May 16th, 2012 at 17:55 | #21

    12 million Chinese have signed petition denouncing Philippines recent acts in the disputed area:

    http://w2h.3g.qq.com/g/s?p=http://infoapp.3g.qq.com/g/s%3Ficfa%3Dnews_zfhyd%26aid%3Dexpress_index%26action%3D1%26

    Now watch Western press denouncing the Chinese people for doing something ‘democratic.’ That is if they ever bother to shed light when the Chinese support their government, you know, this sort of thing.

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