For those of you who live in the West, you might have noticed the lack of news covering the Syrian perspective. Well, Charlie Rose deserves credit for bucking the trend, daring to interview Bashar Al-Assad and bringing Syria’s perspective to his America audience.
Hidden Harmonies China Blog
As China Re-Awakens, Finding New Harmonies in a Brave New World...
pug_ster says
I recall that 11 years ago that then relatively unknown Barack Obama came out and spoke against Bush’s propaganda before the war in Iraq. He was a minority voice then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzmXy226po
As a result of this he probably got 2 Nobel ‘peace’ prizes! Today he is a minority again, but for the war in Syria.
Black Pheonix says
“Shoot first, ask questions later.”
It worked for George Zimmerman. I guess Obama learned quickly.
ersim says
Was thinking if there is such a concept called a “just war” within Chinese historical/cultural “tradition”. Been looking online. Not surprising, only limited to Western “tradition” dating back as recent as the so called School of Salamanca, no coincidence, after the so called “discovery” of the “New World.”
Black Pheonix says
@ersim
I think the closest Chinese history had was 伐恶, (and other similar terms for “punishing evil”), which was only used during the Spring Autumn and Warring Nations Period.
But after that period, Chinese came to view such terms as mere excuses for starting wars to take someone’s territory.
Because after the Spring Autumn and Warring Nations Period, China was unified, there was no social need to invade or take territories.
Thus, Emperors didn’t use those terms any more. In Civil Wars, the slogan would be more like “for unification”.
Thus, in Chinese terms, “just war” was considered a taboo excuse from ancient times, when the warlords used any excuses to wage war on the weak.
And for more than 2000 years there after, the only just cause Chinese would have for war was for “sovereignty” or “unity” of China.
ho hon says
天下有道，則禮樂征伐自天子出；天下無道，則禮樂征伐自諸侯出。《論語.季氏》
ho hon says
I think in Chinese culture there are at least two dimensions on war: 1. whether it is justified or not (quoted above). 2. is it stupid. Another quotation from Sun Tzu: 「故上兵伐謀，其次伐交，其次伐兵，其下攻城。攻城之法，為不得已；修櫓轒轀，具器械，三月而後成；距闉，又三月而後已；將不勝其忿，殺士卒三分之一，而城不拔者，此攻之災也。」
ersim says
@Black Pheonix Thanks for the info. Ho hon mentions SunTzu. I was wondering if he has something to do with the Chinese concept of a “just war”.
pug_ster says
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/13/christiane-amanpour-syria_n_3919970.html
Lol, look at US censorship at work here. Tried to post a comment and got a message, it said “Due to the potentially sensitive nature of this article, your comment may take longer to appear publicly.”
ersim says
@pug_ster The Huffington Post is waiting what happens with the talks in Geneva. If the talks “fail”, maybe you can see your comment posted, LOL (being sarcastic).
Black Pheonix says
@ersim
Sun Tzu definitely wrote not so much about “just war”, as he admonished rulers against War, using costs of war as arguments.
Sun Tzu was not concerned with what would justify war. His solution was to end wars as expeditiously and with minimum cost as possible.
He was in a time, about 550 years of continuous warfare in China. There was serious debate in that time about what would be considered “just war”, but there were no good conclusions.
In the end, the only solution was “unification”, as the ultimate solution to end all wars.
Thus, I would argue that from China’s unification, the ONLY valid justification for war were to repel invasion or for unification (both are to protect China’s sovereignty).
Other moral justifications are simply excuses.
ersim says
@Black Pheonix
Used as references Spring Autumn Period and Warring States Period to go online and through Wikipedia, did find more interesting info related to Chinese concept of war. Found info about the “Seven military classics” Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War” being among them. Thanks for your help.