Because if he does, there is clearly a press club waiting for a whiff. After Wang Lijun’s (王立军) visit to the American Consulate in February 6, 2012, there has been speculation in the Western press that this ex-police chief from Chongqing may be seeking political asylum. The Chinese Foreign Ministry has confirmed to a reporter he is indeed under investigation. Further speculation in the Western press is that Wang Lijun may be seeking cover for exposing corruption in his boss, Bo Xilai. In this post, I thought I write about this peculiar press club. But, what’s the connection between this club and Bo Xilai? Apparently, Bo Xilai has a campaign going on in Chongqing for “red” songs. And we know how badly certain corners in the West like to sniff out redness. Anyways, do a search on Twitter.com for ‘Bo Xilai’ and you will get a list which includes NTD TV (FLG propaganda arm), The Epoch Times (FLG), CDT, Melissa Chan (Aljazeera), Tom Lassetter (McClatchy), Austin Ramzy (TIME), and David Barboza (NYT). These various media certainly makes for interesting company, no? Coincidence? Very likely. NYT’s coverage about China? Yeah, a bit better than the FLG outlets.
Below is the search result as of March 8, 2012 around 23:14.
Hidden Harmonies China Blog
As China Re-Awakens, Finding New Harmonies in a Brave New World...
YinYang says
If we ignore the he said she said in this latest NYT article, what does the NYT have remaining?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/09/world/asia/in-china-bo-xilais-political-scandal-deepens.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
The NYT is creating drama.
William says
Bo Xilai is high-profile, that’s for sure. But the jury is very much out as to whether he’s “red” or just an opportunist. He certainly didn’t seem very “red” at the head of Dalian, Liaoning or the Commerce Ministry. We can talk about policy and ideology all we like, but it’s very dangerous to be simplistic about individuals or factions. You just don’t know what’s really going on.
YinYang says
I’d add it is not up to a newspaper to speculate and try to smear someone with innuendos.
Charles Liu says
China Digital Time’s Xiao Qiang is a 6/4 hold-over sponsored by the US government. Who can forget his mis-characterization of cooks and mechanics from Lanxiang VocTech enlisting as “Technology Officers” in order to support the Google hack story?
http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2010/02/two-chinese-schools-said-to-be-tied-to-online-attacks/?show=comments
You can see from the comments just how unrepentant he is, even when glaring translation mistakes were pointed out to him, a supposedly native Chinese speaker.
Hafez says
“I’d add it is not up to a newspaper to speculate and try to smear someone with innuendos”
Really? But thats what you guys did with your “Stan Abrams of China Hearsay – A Case of Pathological Bias?” BS
Like someone asking yinyang if he still molests children…
raventhorn says
@Hafez
“But thats what you guys did with your “Stan Abrams of China Hearsay – A Case of Pathological Bias?” BS”
Stan pretty much admitted his own stuff as “HEARSAY”. No innuendo is required.
pug_ster says
@Hafez
What does this post has anything to do with Stan Abrams? yinyang is talking about the Western propagandists and Stan is a blogger. The sensationalist headlines from people who knows nothing about the inner workings of the Chinese people. IE.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/09/china-communist-boss-bo-xilai
“China: toils of communist boss give insight into workings of the party” – Don’t tell me that Tania Branigan interviewed some CCP official to get this kind of ‘insight.’
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/10/world/asia/bo-xilai-an-ambitious-chinese-party-chief-admits-failure.html?_r=1
“An Ambitious Chinese Party Chief Admits His Failure to Oversee an Aide” – There’s no mention of ‘failure to oversee an aide.
http://t.co/yjJNePMY
“Chinese infighting: Secrets of a succession war – fascinating FT piece on Wang Lijun and Bo Xilai” – Succession war, that’s a good one.
Allen says
@Hafez
My thread about Stan is not based on innuendos. Everything I wrote is cited. It’s based on Stan’s words.
If you don’t like my conclusion – fine. But I don’t make up facts – I don’t base my arguments on innuendos (he said / she said). The basis of everything I wrote is Stan’s words – which can be found in the Bloomberg interview I cited or China Hearsay directly.
Hafez says
“the inner workings of the Chinese people”
Im a proctologist and have had many Chinese patients. Does this qualify?
It’s my professional opinion that the “inner workings” of Chinese people are the same as other people around the world.
pug_ster says
@Hafez
You do realize that this is blog site and not a newspaper right?
Sigmar says
@Hafez
“Im a proctologist and have had many Chinese patients. Does this qualify?”
No. Over here when we talk about the inner workings of the Chinese, we are talking about how they think and feel.
“It’s my professional opinion that the “inner workings” of Chinese people are the same as other people around the world.”
No that’s your troll opinion. It is evident we are not discussing about the physical inner workings of the Chinese in this forum.
Nice try in trying to derail the topic, though.
Mods, I have a feeling “Hafez” is going to end up as disruptive as “Haikun”. I suggest you pay proper attention, refute any nonsensical allegations and react accordingly when attempts to troll become apparent.
Baz says
http://www.china.org.cn/china/2012-03/15/content_24903123.htm
He must’ve stunk out the whole room
YinYang says
1. Western journalists speculating on Bo Xilai could have spared all the ink and waited until today.
2. You might then ask what else could they have spent their time reporting on instead?
For starters, they could have spent more time covering Afghani and Iraqi children being killed:
“FAIR: “How Many Afghan Kids Need to Die to Make the News?””
https://hiddenharmonies.org/2011/03/fair-how-many-afghan-kids-need-to-die-to-make-the-news/
Baz says
So you’re now in a position of telling the media what they should be spending their efforts reporting on?
Pretty childish retort there yinyang, I expected more, especially I saw lots of reports in the Chinese media speculating on strange happenings in Chengdu.
YinYang says
I want the West to solve its problems. Seriously. Their media is increasingly one of a tabloid cesspool. Western media have to start explaining reality to Westerners more.
Baz says
True, all media should. Chinese, Arab, African, or Western,. Fact is most people dont really care enough to even bother reading below the headlines. People tend to get the media they deserve I guess.
Sigmar says
Baz
“Fact is most people dont really care enough to even bother reading below the headlines.”
So how you know this is “fact”?
Baz says
You disagreeing with me Sigmar? I could I suppose ask Alan to “prove” that the media, both Western and Chinese, is becoming a cesspool, but I agree with him. and thats a fact.
Sigmar says
@Baz
Do it, and then explain to us why what you’ve said is fact.
William says
I’d actually agree with yinyang. Western media didn’t really manage to predict this one, and they’re not exactly crystal clear as to what happened and why.
All I can say is that it’s probably a lot more complicated than Nice vs Nasty. Is this a backlash against a resurgent left? Has the actual left decided Bo Xilai is too much of a liability and fake leftist? Has he been suspended from political activity while they try to investigate the case? Is it more about some other clash between interest groups or factions? Only time will (perhaps) tell, and there’s not much else to report.
raventhorn says
“But they dont, they just keep lapping it up. This Website should wear it as a medal of honor that it only has 9 regular posters and 17 regular readers. It must mean you’re close to the truth. Or something.”
I make no opinions of if we are “close to the truth”. “Close” is a relative term, and so is “Truth”.
I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but I think we get quoted enough outside of this forum. 17 regular readers? Oh please stop making up numbers. You know at least no one here will “lap it up”.
raventhorn says
@Baz
Judging by how much time you are wasting to spam this forum with your made up numbers, I say we must have a lot of regular readers who left whatever hole of a blog you’re not writing for yourself.
I have never seen any one try so hard to discredit a forum with only “17 regular readers”.
raventhorn says
I was asked by a friend why Bo was purged.
I thought of it for a while, and replied, because he’s “too popular”.
It’s not because he fought corruption, but because he tried to turn himself into a popular symbol of a leader.
“Popularity” for a leader is a stepping stone away toward Cult of personality.
For was it not Ceasar who was feared for his “popularity” with the People, and who used such “popularity” to seize power?
*”Democracy” in the West have missed the point. “Popularity” is essence of “democratic rule”, and yet, it is the folly of the majority.
Because a “Popular” leader is always a fear and a threat to the minority, not a protector of minority rights.
Other “popular” leaders? Hitler.
A rational China needs leaders who would fight corruption, because it is the right thing to do, NOT because it is the “popular” thing to do.
Don Knotts says
*”Democracy” in the West have missed the point. “Popularity” is essence of “democratic rule”, and yet, it is the folly of the majority.
Raven, can I ask where you choose to live? What is your personal preference, tyranny of the minority?
pug_ster says
@raventhorn
Personally I see Bo Xilai phenomenon no worse than the hypocritical Obama when it comes to campaigns finance reform and ending the war in Afghanistan. In the case with Bo Xilai, he was so hell bent to get rid of corruption, that he become corrupt himself.
@Don Knotts
You seems to have an oversimplification of people wanting to live tyranny of the minority and why Chinese people chose to come to the US. Everyone I know who come here are because of economic opportunity, and they don’t give a rat’s ass about the ‘democratic’ government here. For me, if I had a better paying job in China, I would move there in a heartbeat.
Don Knotts says
“For me, if I had a better paying job in China, I would move there in a heartbeat.”
I guess in every immigrant population there will always be a certain number of economic opportunists. Each country decides for itself the net good these bring to the host country.
How do you explain the large % of China’s most wealthy also wanting to emigrate from the PRC? Hard to imagine they are doing do for higher salaries, especially given China’s “economic miracle” and the coming collapse of America, as documented here.
YinYang says
@Don Knotts
Religious nuts still debate scientists about evolution. The problem with those nuts is they are without evidence.
If you ever ask an illegal immigrant from Mexico in the United States, they will tell you they can make more money in America. None of them will tell you they are here for ‘democracy.’
This is not up for debate.
The rich Chinese are looking for investment opportunities and for sending their children to study in America. Those are all economic reasons.
Like the ‘dissident’ who is interested in toppling the Chinese government would say they want to come to America for ‘democracy,’ you are the type that would only blindly see the main reason people immigrate is for political reasons. Because your interest is aligned.
Why aren’t Chinese or Mexicans immigrate into India in troves?
Look, I think you are that same porn troll that’s been parading this same question. So many people have already entertained your silliness.
Now you know why your trolling will be relegated into the spam queue.
Naqshbandiyya says
While we’re cracking down on Wayne’s hateful anti-interracial screeds, could the moderation also cleanse the site of the racist and sexist nonsense from John Ritter/Don Knotts, who is probably an incarnation of a previous troll? The hands-off system of moderation usually works, but this guy is obviously here to stir up emotions and not engage in productive dialogue.
YinYang says
@Naqshbandiyya
You are right.
raventhorn says
@John ritter
“It’s this kind of disgusting opportunism that pisses people off. Your time would be better spent teaching your (ex) countrymen and women a little virtue. The PRC Chinese are always so quick to game any system, to the detriment of everyone else.”
I don’t see any problems with “gaming the system”. No laws against “gaming the system”.
But hey, if US allows Dictators and Ex-Nazis to “game the system”, I don’t know what your complaints is regarding ordinary “PRC Chinese”.
I say “PRC Chinese” are NOT “so quick” as you say they are.
**If US Immigration system gives Green Cards based on “virtue”, maybe you would have a point.
I guess US doesn’t care about the “virtue” of the immigrants, So why should China care about the “virtue” of those who want to be Americans??
It’s US immigration laws, set up by “democratic system” of US. Why is it China’s problem??
raventhorn says
http://abcnews.go.com/US/nazis-america-deported/story?id=13597801#.T2YZu5OqmmA
“Six Nazis Who Will Probably Live Out Their Lives Free in America”
Oh, where the F*ing “virtue” in this then?
Sounds like the system has been gamed for decades!
Bob says
Justin Raimondo of antiwar.com has just published a fairly lengthy and well-researched (at least it seems to be) essay/report on the downfall of Bo Xilai, China’s internal politics, and Western media’s collective narrative:
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/04/01/the-truth-about-bo-xilai/
Anybody read it? Thoughts?
YinYang says
@Bob
Thanks for that link, though, I am sorry for being so blunt – if you dip yourself in a cesspool, how’d you expect yourself to to smell like?
You gave a good example of what happens when someone goes on length researching Western media sources about China who subscribes to the same narrative: it’s a classic as to what you get; more of the same.
Until the media gets direct quotes from primary actors or Chinese authorities, I think all this nonsense is a waste of time.
YinYang says
Hey, porn troll, I don’t understand why you keep coming back under different names. I simply don’t have as much time as you to waste. Aren’t you tired of getting your comments tossed into the spam queue?
If the Chinese government were able to sound the alarms on SARS early, you’d be the first person to criticize them for stirring up fear. IF a mass crisis was pronounced earlier and had helped contained SARS sooner, trolls such as yourself would blame inexperience hysteria or some nefariousness.
Regarding Bo, he’s still in the Politburo is he not? All we know is he’s no longer the Communist Party Secretary of the Chongqing municipality.
“straight answers?” What kind of sick nut are you? If Bo refuse to talk about his plight, isn’t he entitled to some privacy?
We may or may not find out why he was relieved of his Chongqing post. The Western media is now trying to link a dead Brit, whose family by the way have already come out to say that he died from over-drinking, to Bo Xilai. Despite heaps of innuendos, not one paper has offer any fact.
That’s a reflection of what the Western media is and nothing much more.
Charles Liu says
@Truth.from.Facts…
From my research the three political rumors circulated in march (fake Wang Lijun confession, using old parade photo as evidence of coup, Gu Kailai killed Neil Heywood) can all be traced back to Falun Gong media Epoch Times and Jiang Weiping (姜维平) of China Free Press.
These groups are known to have the NED as their foreign paymaster, and Falun Gong minions all hitting the net to pump up the rumor THE SAME DAY Epoch publishes it is no coincidence, IMHO with no goal other than to disrupt the upcoming NCP meeting.
The UK Facebook arrest demonstrates free speech has limits, and people in China getting arrested over rumor mongering is no different.
raventhorn says
My reaction: Even Justin can’t help himself in speculating wildly about things he can’t possibly know that well.
**
The other day, I ran through some old material of Western views on China, compared to some more present material, I realized that the root problem with Western views on China is that Westerners judge China based upon Western historical parallels.
Ie. Mao and others are invariably compared to Stalin or Hitler. In contrast, Chinese just compare Mao to historical Chinese leaders.
It’s rather silly, like saying “Oh, you are bad, because you look like myself when I was young.”
raventhorn says
Another analogy:
I’ll put forth a challenge to any Westerner, to describe fully the historical significance of the following ONLY by Chinese historical parallels:
(1) George Washington
(2) Declaration of Independence
(3) Constitution
(4) Manifest Destiny
pug_ster says
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-x-li/bo-xilai-china_b_1409901.html
I thought that this is an excellent opinion from Eric X Li about Bo Xilai.
YinYang says
Looks like Bo Xilai is now suspended from the Politburo and his wife under investigation in connection with the death of the British businessman:
http://video.sina.com.cn/p/news/c/v/2012-04-10/230961717529.html