China Daily USA has recently started doing short video segments, and I mainly want to give it a shout out. Below is China Daily’s LIU Yuhan talking to supermodel LIU Wen. (Do check out their Youtube channel for more.) Nice to see Liu Wen so down to earth. Notice she’s talking about modeling for some Chinese brands. Top European designers are being hired by Chinese firms too. Such firms are definitely moving up the value chain hoping to capture some of that luxury spending by the newly rich Chinese. China is already Louis Vuitton’s second largest market! This is how Chinese designed stuff becomes cool.
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Wayne says
China is already Louis Vuitton’s second largest market!
So what? Is this supposed to be something to be proud of? That Chinese follow foreign fashions and trends like complete and utter idiots?
Don’t be surprised if this woman ends up with a white partner sooner or later….it seems to be di rigeur nowadays for chinese women, particularly celebrities to sport a white ape boyfriend as the latest fashion accessory.
Sadly, far too many Chinese women act like cheap whores in front of white foreigners.
We should have our own indigenous movie and fashion scene, and not get all excited simply because Westerners allow a few Chinese here or there into their fashion or film industry.
Why the fuck do Chinese give so much a fuck for what whiteys think?
YinYang says
@Wayne
Damn, Wayne, first of all, you shouldn’t disparage Whites with slurs. You don’t want that against the Chinese either.
Second, I am kind of saddened, actually, by your response.
Have more respect for the Chinese. Have more respect for her. If she decides to marry a White person, it’s none of your damn business.
Are the odds stacked against the Chinese men and the Chinese in general? Hell yeah. But with you screaming for Chinese woman to stay away from foreigners is stupid.
Regardless who Liu Wen marries, her fame and popularity in pushing Chinese designed fashion will do more to Chinese positive perceptions of themselves (and foreigners perceptions of Chinese) than you and I can in perhaps 1 million life times.
China is Louis Vuitton’s 2nd largest market implicitly says China finally has a market ripe to support her own designers.
Ray says
yinyang,
I think China might already be the biggest market for LV products if you add in the Chinese shoppers in LV stores all over Europe and N. America. China is also the largest market for Roll Royce and Bentley. Should we be happy? It beats Chinese not able to afford anything but also point to a glaring weakness of humanity and a stupid cycle Chinese never got out of from.
Frankly, it is really stupid to spend $30k on a bag or clothes, even $1k is too much. This shallowness is only useful in corrupted cycle. China is definitely in a position to develop their own luxury brands. However, I always feel it is much easier to invest in a successful brand and go on from there. Chinese sovereign wealth fund should look into it. Many Middle Eastern sovereign wealth fund have already invested heavily in so-called western luxury brands.
I look forward to the day when rich Chinese would take more pride in their philanthropy work than spotting overpriced luxury goods. Don’t take this as an attack on your article. Human are shallow and looked up to luxury products and to be a player, China needs its share but I hope to see a day when human break from this shallowness.
YinYang says
@Ray
I hear ya.
Well, I think Chinese firms simply need to learn the marketing and brand development that make luxury goods sell. You and I may consider someone buying a $30k bag ‘shallow,’ but I am sure many clearly don’t. Or conversely, look at how hotly sought after are many of China’s painters today outside China. Are their work overpriced? It’s in the eye of the beholder.
The bottom line is that there is great demand for luxury goods in China. Perhaps I am simply confident that Chinese firms will increasingly supply that demand. Hence, I think that’s cause for celebration that Chinese designed fashion will become more respected.
Mister Unknown says
It shouldn’t be a surprise that China’s luxury goods market is dominated by overseas firms. In fact, I’d be quite disappointed if it were not at this particular stage in China’s development.
In a state capitalist economy, the government, rather than pure market-based forces, strongly influences what industries get preferential treatment over others, and it would be ridiculous to put emphasis on vanity industries such as luxury goods, rather than those that provide concrete public goods – alternative energy, infrastructural construction, IT, defense, biotech, etc.
With time, the Chinese domestic luxury goods producers will go through the imitate-improve-innovate cycle just like Chinese companies in any other industry, except they may have to do so without government support for the time being.
Wayne says
Really, should we be encouraging people to chase after these pathetic luxury products at all?
I agree with Ray, “when rich Chinese would take more pride in their philanthropy work than spotting overpriced luxury goods”, but would go a step further to say that hopefully China will get to the stage where all people are more or less equally wealthy, so we don’t have tycoons existing alongside appalling poverty, and philanthropy is not really needed.
In a society where all are justly rewarded for their labour there will not be the need for philanthropy from rich motherfuckers.
I’d rather China have a great football (soccer) team, than be into stuff of absolutely no value, like fashion and status products.
“are the odds stacked against the Chinese men and the Chinese in general? Hell yeah. But with you screaming for Chinese woman to stay away from foreigners is stupid.”
I don’t get it. You admit the odds are stacked against us…..then in the next breath say we should do nothing about it.
The facts are these. Any loser white (moderated) can bag a good looking Chinese woman. That means that many Chinese woman devalue themselves to be the cheap white man’s sluts that they are………..after all if they adulate these white apes and wants to make love to these apes what does that make them………obviously something less than an ape……I’m sick and tired of these sexually deviant chinese women who are so much into zoophilia.
Wayne says
The fashion (and Hollywood) industry in the West is the most racist industry in the world. Even this right-wing British newspaper article admits it:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2002798/James-Brown-John-Galliano-Fashion-industry-racist-goes-right-core.html
That they on occassion allow the token asian, or black model, is not reason to rejoice……these white racist industries do this simply to fend off well justified charges of racism.
We should be boycotting these industries, not slavishly following them, and getting all orgasmic on the rare occassion that they throw us a few crumbs off their overloaded banquet tables……
Wayne says
90 percent of the world’s people are non-white.
Yet look at the entertainment and Hollywood and fashion industry which is 99% white.
Yet these whites foist on the rest of the world, and internationalise it to brainwash non-white people.
So we should avoid getting excited just because this utterly racist industry has a chinese model here or there. It is just pure tokenism.
YinYang says
@Wayne
You are not going to be able to stop Chinese people from buying Louis Vuitton by telling them doing so makes them ‘shallow’ or strengthens a racist industry. You are not going to be able to stop Chinese people from watching Hollywood movies, even if they all come to the realization colored people are subtledly denigrated, U.S. military is glorified as a force for good, etc..
The thing that works, and hence I am not saying nothing gets done about it, is for China to become rich, learn to make luxury goods, and define for the world what is cool about them.
Look, this is NOT getting excited for having a few crumbs thrown at the Chinese. This is very much about addressing what you observe as a flight of Chinese women problem you seem unable to see in any other way!
China will have the wealth and market to want sexy Chinese men and women images everywhere. China can’t have that when she is poor.
HXM says
@Wayne
So much hate, Wayne. Do you have to work with white people at all? How do you bear it and contain yourself??
JJ says
@Wayne
First of all, can we stop with the name calling? I understand there’s a lot of racism directed towards us but we don’t have to stoop to their level.
Secondly, I would disagree with your comment. It’s a common joke among my Mainland female friends that if you’re too fat or ugly to get a Chinese guy, you can always date a foreigner because they can’t tell the difference 🙂 Crass, I know, but I hear it all the time.
Also, it’s a numbers issue. I would say the percentage of women willing to date foreigners is actually pretty low, but because there’s so many Chinese people and so few foreigners, it might seem like it’s “easy.”
For example, “one feature of the Russian-Chinese relationship seemed especially telling: Cross-border marriages are overwhelmingly between Chinese men and Russian women. Much of this has to do with demographics—Russia has a surplus of women, while China has too many men. But as one Russian woman told me, ‘Chinese men are kinder and more attentive to their wives. And they usually have more money.'” Source
So please stop denigrating Chinese women. There are many who are proud and strong and if you’re going to insult all of them because of the actions of a few, then you’re acting just like those who try to attack us.
Ray says
@Wayne
I think you should stop derailing the topic with your generalization, don’t you think it is a bit too much? If you don’t have any statistic to support your simplistic claim of “The facts are these. Any loser white ape can bag a good looking Chinese woman.” you should stop making similar comment again or faced being banned. How is this even be possible? Do you know that more than 10% of men in Europe and N. America never got married? By your logic, they would all have a good looking Chinese wives already. But as JJ point out the reality is much more different. Even if you see five thousand or ten thousand Chinese females with foreign men that is out of 6 billion Chinese female. Percentage wise it is close to zero.
Frankly, I hate going after you on this point but you are wasting bandwidth with your rants. This is an article on fashion and luxury brands. Getting angry will not solve any problem, neither will screaming racism. In reality, people respect only strength. yinyang is right in that China and East Asia must build up their own luxury brands. Japan and S. Korea already have some but they are not widely known to outsiders. Basically, in a market economy you either have to beat them or join them. Thirty years ago all top models are Caucasian. Maybe you feel there is no reason to get excited but it is a breakthrough and what yinyang suggests is actually a step in that direction. China is not there yet but all journey start with a single step.
As much as I wish for a Utopian Chinese society that has no poor and the rich do not feel the need to show off, it is not happening anytime soon. So instead of attacking you should put in a constructive argument or suggestion. You also say you share a similar vision but how can it be achieved?
PS: So any idea on how to build a great football team?
Ray says
The negative comments on a Chinese Miss World is almost as much as a Chinese gold medal swimmer.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/18/yu-wenxia-miss-china-crow_n_1801488.html
Wayne says
@Ray
Of course it is a small percentage because there are not that many white apes in China…yet.
But the point is this. ANY white man in China, can easily score a cheap chinese sell out slut……it is a FACT…..it also is the case for Taiwan and Hong Kong.
I have lived and worked in Hong Kong for years, and I can tell you that EVERY white expat man there could get a chinese woman easier than any Chinese man….that is the truth.
Now is this the same for any Chinese man in the West—-getting the best looking biggest titted blonde? Of course not!
This is of course reflected in what celebrities do—–look at Gong Li, Zhang Ziyi, Maggie Cheung, Gigi Leung, and fucking a whole lot more……with white men.
Now tell me ONE Western female filmstar with a Chinese boyfriend…just one.
And that is the problem….there is no race on woman on the earth which prostitutes itself out to the lowest of the low white scum, as do Chinese women.
Chinese women, unfortunately, have gone wild, and until we Chinese men start reasserting some traditional values on these bitches, the problem is simply never going to go away.
Now back to luxury brands and status products……why is it that Chinese chase after these even more than most white people……it just shows the sick mentality out there.
I’m frankly getting sick of all these celebrations of Chinese ‘firsts’ ……..white man gives you a crumb from his biscuit and we are supposed to get all excited.
(moderated).
Wayne says
We gotta get radical, violent, and have a new cultural revolution. We have to smash the heads of rich chinese compradors who sell out to white people.
Look at Shanghai….it is fast returning to the cesspool it was in the 1930s and 1940s before liberation.
Face it….whites are a privileged minority in China, they can get away with virtually anything……and it is not the fault of whites….but the fault of us Chinese.
We have to follow the lead of black people and really start handing out some violence. Here are some beautiful pictures from Zimbabwe—–they took those white skinned pigs out and gave them a real beating:
http://tinyurl.com/9oas3vw
Face it. The reason the West hates China so much is because we are non-whites. It is a race war out there against us, gentleman, and we need to fight fire with fire.
If we started punishing white men (and their chinese hos) in the same way that the whites use to punish black men for just looking at their women, we will soon see some progress.
Wayne says
@Ray
As far a a great football team goes, for one, you cannot rely on selecting just a few elite athletes as you can with gymnastics….with football you need to encourage mass participation in the schools, and in the community, and build a real passion for the game—-in the way South Americans, Africans, and Europeans are passionate about the game.
But too many Chinese parents concentrate only on the schoolwork side of things—-but boys need to do sports and fight.
(moderated by Ray for advocating violence and breaking the law)
jxie says
There is an underrated 2003 movie Le Divorce (Rotten Tomatoes at 37% and IMDB at 4.9/10), led by actresses Naomi Watts and Kate Hudson, who both in my opinion are White Chicks Asians Like (WCAL). In this movie an older French guy gifted young women expensive handbags, and expected to have sex with them. The handbag given to Kate Hudson was a Hermes Kelly bag. A top of line Hermes Kelly bag sells for well into 5 digits in USD.
Kelly bag was named after Grace Kelly. The Hermes line of handbags was first photographed of being carried by Grace Kelly in the party where she met her future husband, the Monacan prince, and in the subsequent years appeared to be an accessory of hers. Years later, the Hermes model was renamed after Kelly. Granted, in my opinion, Grace Kelly isn’t a WCAL.
Luxury brand names are about histories and stories. A big chunk of Tiffany’s current premium may go back to the movie “Breakfast at Tiffany’s” and the unforgettable Moon River, at least to suckers like me. Audrey Hepburn is for sure on the top of the WCAL list. The tagline of Patek Philippe is, “you never actually own a Patek Philippe. You merely look after it for the next generation.” Well, you can see its appeal… but to me quite a bit over the top.
A major part of ancient Chinese’s self identity rooted from the beautiful clothing they wore, compared to the other tribes. It and other aspects of the Chinese culture were so attractive to the other tribes, oftentimes those tribes sinified themselves… Inside of each of us, there is a fashionista waiting for burst out. What are the histories and the stories we will build?
Ray says
@Wayne
I think you have totally lost it. A cultural revolution style movement will be a step backward. Your obsession with this dating issue is over the top.
Where do you get the idea of blond and big breast is the ideal womanhood? Have you soaked up too much propaganda?
You’ve talked about shallowness but you are doing it yourself. Since when do looks dictate the value of women? If you think those women who married outside are no good then shouldn’t it be for the better? Why stop it?
When you advocate violence based on ethnicity or whatever, you are talking like the kkk, why be like them?
jxie says
@Wayne
LOL. Wayne. To those who know, “biggest titted blonde” is probably the most overrated type. Case in point, Pamela Anderson & Jenny McCarthy. Well both are faked blondes, with faked tits…
Except Zhang Ziyi, all of these hooked up with their white partners in their 30s (or even 40s in Gong Li’s case), after the otherwise “loves of their lives” failed — sort of hard to know the real stories but let’s assume the public stories are real. The brutal truth is probably about the desirability of Chinese women past their 20s with Chinese men…
Mister Unknown says
Wow, we have sunk to a new low on this blog… ;-P
YinYang says
Folks – I’ve dumped Wayne’s latest comment into the spam queue.
JJ says
@jxie
Very good point.
In a way, I feel their Chinese partners are somewhat to blame as well. Based on the news reports, it was after the men dumped them that they felt the only way to “escape the humiliation” was to date a Westerner, thus they move outside the system.
So that’s something that we need to reflect upon as well. Of course, we also need to realize that white guys do have a lot of privileges in Asia due to the multi-billion dollar marketing campaign, courtesy of Hollywood and these luxury brands.
I do think there will be a renewed pride in our local brands, but it’ll take some time. For example, while Japan also loves foreign brands, they were able to create fierce loyalty in certain luxury categories like fashion, cosmetics, and cars.
And Taiwan is actually doing it with artwork like the brand 琉璃工房 and wood furniture as well.
What’s interesting is that food seems to be the easiest area to promote a luxury experience so perhaps we would have to start from there.
JJ says
Oh, I also wanted to add that in Taiwan, they are really getting into the organic stuff, in both foods and products. And from what I heard from my mainland friends, it’s similar among the growing middle-class.
There’s a very popular, luxury soap from a Taiwanese company called Ah Yuan (http://www.yuansoap.com/)
It’s quite expensive but it’s handmade, completely organic, and they even have their own farm!
raffiaflower says
China has the manufacturing ability to produce luxury brands. The American `masstige’ (prestige+mass) brand Coach, for instance, makes most of its stuff on the mainland.
Making full disclosure before Prada’s IPO in Hong Kong, the owner/designer Miuccia Prada revealed that about 20 per cent of its products are already made in China, affirming the quality of the labour force and manufacturing standards.
However, China lags behind in:
1. Technology – the ability to create/produce materials and trims that inspire cutting-edge design.
2. Design skills – many top Western brands actually have Western & Asian design teams behind the creative director. Many Chinese (Korean, Japanese, etc) designers work anonymously with big names. Again, as China’s luxury scene matures into the next phase, Chinese designers will come into their own; developing their own brands to cater for a breed of customer that isn’t satisfied with ubiquitous Western logos such as double Gs or Cs. However, there are some Chinese fast-fashion brands that are already huge.
3. Marketing: it’s largely about perception. Every top brand has some story about heritage, craftsmanship, uniqueness, etc. Not so true,sometimes – the big names are not above ripping each other’s designs, with some tweaking.
How many original, hot-selling ideas are there really in this world? Cosmetic brands are forever going on about some new anti-aging ingredient in plants, the sea, from Mars, etc. They all add fancy words or glossy images to con consumers that it’s the New Big Thing.
China has to beef up on all that. But, as Mister Unknown says, luxury products are not an official priority in China’s development. The impetus has to come from private funds; over the next 15 years perhaps, some huge corporation – eg Wahaha, China Mobile, whatever – may decide to look away from their saturated core businesses to fund other industries. But Chinese corporations are not looking at luxury brands – yet – perhaps because there is overwhelming opportunity in more basic/essential sectors.
scl2 says
Chinese government actually encourages people to buy gold, not some stupid fashion pieces.
raffiaflower says
The Chinese govt actually encourages its people to invest wisely, and not speculate. Gold has soared from US$800, around 2008, especially on demand from India and China. It seems rather vertiginous – but what would I know? I am stupid.
Luckily, the Chinese govt is not stupid, tho its sovereign funds got burnt with some bad investments in Blackstone during the last crisis.
`Stupid fashion pieces’ probably translates as clothing/apparel – a basic human right – and stuff like shoes and bags.
For something so stupid, it has helped China to lift millions out of poverty, and transform the country into the world’s second biggest economy.
When China opened its doors post-CR, it had nothing to offer but a huge unskilled and uneducated labor pool
that could be directed into sewing en masse, for export.
`Stupid fashion’ is really an entry-level business for any country seeking to industrialize – Korea and Japan, even Taiwan, were stupid long before China wised up/opened up and joined them.
Today countries such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia and soon even Myanmar can produce garments more cheaply than China, so the mainland will have to move up the value chain, in terms of quality and design, and perhaps cater to its own internal market.
Some people might call that progress, some would call it…stupid.(Personally, I wouldn’t pay four-digits for a bag).
Of course garment contractors for big brands sub-contract the work to sweatshops, that often exploit women and children. But that’s another story.
JJ says
@raffiaflower
Exactly. In addition, luxury brands will have huge money-losing stores in the most exclusive parts of town simply so they can “buy prestige.” These Western luxury brands have a large war chest for them to create the image of desirability, so a local brand has to work harder and in areas that the current luxury brands don’t serve.
I think the main issue though is that there’s still so much money to be made from copying and making knock-offs. Many entrepreneurs with the means to start a business often want to play it safe. In addition, many investors are risk-averse so innovative local brands might just not get funding.
Eventually I believe the Chinese market will mature to a point where they will desire local brands, but until then, foreign companies will continue to dominate.
@Wayne
Anna Chlumsky of My Girl fame is married to Shaun So.
And if you’re asking about celebrities with other Asians, there’s:
Diane Farr, Olivia Newton-John, D’arcy Wretzky, Julia Stegner, Natalie Glebova, Divini Rae, Andrea Lowell, and a bunch of others that I don’t want to bother looking up because this discussion seems kinda pointless…
Oh, and not sure these these two count as “celebrities” but the former Australian Prime Minister’s daughter and also Al Gore’s daughter are married to Chinese guys.
JoyceLau says
I saw a Dior ad in the South China Morning Post with a couple of Asian male models. In the August U.S. edition of Vogue, Ambassador Gary Locke’s wife was featured as a style icon. In Hong Kong, Shanghai Tang has opened a new flagship.
I agree with yinyang. The market for luxury goods is a sign that China has moved beyond living from hand-to-mouth — and that some people have the luxury of time and resources to enjoy the good things in life, whether it’s electronics, fashion, art, movies or wine.
Western brands now have to cater to Asian tastes, too — in design, advertising, or openings businesses in this part of the world. One brand (Hermes?) has opened a Chinese arm. Chinese kids are growing up with music, movies, fashion shows, cool magazines, and culture from all over the world that will spark their creativity. In turn, they will be inspired to make their own creations and brands.
As for whether fashion is wasteful. When this blog mentioned the new Huawei phone or Jeremy Lin’s rise, people were genuinely excited. Others may be excited by fashion and design instead of tech and sports. It’s just personal taste.
Europe’s grand old brands, like Chanel and Dior, are over a century old. China will create her own luxury brands with time, in a different and new way.
Zack says
@JoyceLau
indeed, and it’s not to say that there aren’t time honoured Chinese brands either; take Beijing TongrenTang, that chain of traditonal chinese medicinal clinics has a history predating even levis or chanel. It even had imperial endosement, which gives you an idea of the legacy it possesses.
In the future, firms like Huawei and Lenovo will become as commonplace as mcdonalds and Microsoft.
Ray says
Since Hermes is mentioned again. I actually hope you guys can help me with an experiment. Could you asked around among your friends who is Hermes?
It is not that I despised these boutique brands but rather hate pure consumerism and sheepish mentallity of some buyers.
I really want to know how many people answered that Hermes is a Greek god instead of a luxury brand.