Can anyone find the original source? I can not (only reports from US panelist saying there are “credible reports” based on propaganda paid for by US government via NED, not actual investigation or verification by UN):
UPDATE: NYT has quietly pulled the article. Here’s more details about this hit job from Ben Norton from Grey Zone:
https://grayzoneproject.com/2018/08/23/un-did-not-report-china-internment-camps-uighur-muslims/amp/
And here’s Reuters cited by NYT
And TWO MILLION? Xinjiang’s entire population is about 20 million of all ethnicity – how do you keep “secret camps” that jails 1 in 10 people, including Han children, secret? Even if the detention is exclusively Uighurs, that means 25% of the 8 million Uighurs in the region are secretly detained – again how do you keep detention of ONE QUARTER of a population, secret? Not to mention the worst case arrest numbers from UK government propaganda outlet, citing US government funded propaganda, below, is so very different?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-16860974
I’m calling BS on this.
alanking says
Of course it is BS. Practically everything that comes out of the American MSM regarding “unfriendly” countries are BS, including China, Venezuela, Iran, Russia, Syria, N. Korea, etc etc.
This is not a joke, this is a realization after 20 years of being inundated with MSM lies. Putin was 100% correct when he said that the Western media is able to sell black as white and white as black.
However, stupidity is the most common element, as Einstein said, so such lies are able to fool lots of people. It’s the Goebbel’s method, just repeat lies over and over ad nauseam and many people will believe them to be true.
Not only that, most people are not able to get over their confirmation bias, and will gladly accept lies as truth because they want to believe.
What’s the solution – sorry to say, only being strong enough to defend and destroy your opponent and make sure your opponent know it. China is still ways from that.
KRam says
Well, the Reuters article doesn’t mention anything like that: either you couldn’t interpret the article correctly or misread it deliberately. The article implies that parts of (or whole of) Xinjiang province are now like internment camps in themselves. That is not a surprising conclusion to arrive at, given massive video surveillance, face tracking, and artifical intelligence deployed by the Chinese government in Xinjiang (and increasingly elsewhere). If that is not like an internment camp, what is then? Denying very blatant human rights violations and mass surveillance is propaganda, instead.
N.M.Cheung says
@KRam
The per-capital of surveillance cameras compare with U.S. and China is about the same if you bother to Google it. The China news is because the use of AI technologically advances. Recent reports that tourists in Xinjiang reached 50 million last year and continue to rise. For law abiding citizens the surveillance cameras are ubiquitous and more of security and guarantee that police do not misuse their power as body cameras now do pose some restriction on the misuse of police power in U.S..
N.M.Cheung says
@KRam
In U.S., the total include government entities and private companies, which West disregards as invasion of privacy, while government by definition as “Big Brother” per “1984”. So they are insensitive to private cameras but very sensitive to government intrusion. While Chinese consider it’s government’s job for protection.
KRam says
@N.M.Cheung, I don’t know why, in every argument you need to compare with the U.S. for everything. Why do you feel so much the need to compare yourself with the U.S.? I see in your arguments the same trait which makes the Chinese youngsters worship Western brands: all the time seeing oneself in the mirror of the West. That’s so painful. China will only be strong when it stops imitating the West and returns to its own heritage, a heritage that Mao destroyed. To be specific, did I mention the U.S. or its surveillance? If the U.S. is doing so, then that also is a surveillance state. I talked simply about China: to surveil people, track their faces and activities and even give them a social credit score, that’s inhuman and reminds me of dystopian novels. On top of that, to target only a certain segment of population is even worse. The next time, please argue without comparing with the U.S.: do so in absolute terms. As I said once in an earlier comment, Robber B does not stand excused by saying that Robber A is also looting people.
Charles Liu says
@KRam
The first article, from NYT:
“Million Uighurs in Secret Camps”
In what universe does that imply ”parts of (or whole of) Xinjiang province are now like internment camps in themselves.”
Even on face value of your statement that does not equate to “secret camps”, please compare whole of Xinjiang and current Native American reservation system – contiguous piece of land vs tiny pockets of desolate reservation land where kinship and exchange is cut off. Obviously it’s not acceptable for China to implement the American system, but I don’t see you or Ms. McDougall complaining.
Alright, back to the secret detention camp thing. The news reports are inaccurate:
– No, UN expert did not say this. The accusation was made by a US Panelist, a political cadre also on the board Open Society Institute.
– No, the cited evidence from Chinese Human Rights Defenders is not credible. CHRD is funded by US government via the NED to generate anti-China propaganda
– No, news report claims the article is from Hong Kong, but the actual reference lists NCHRD US leadership and NCHRD is based in Washington DC.
N.M.Cheung says
@KRam
I don’t know where do you come from? I guess from the head of Zeus, You don’t want to talk about U.S., but you want to talk about democracy, human rights, nothing about history, it exist by itself I guess. It exist by your definition from nowhere, absolute.
KRam says
@N.M.Cheung, you think U.S. = democracy? U.S. is just one country which tries to run a democratic system: it succeeds in some places, it does not succeed that well in some places. Democracy is applied in different ways in different countries: France is different, India is different, the U.S. is different. To poke fun at “democracy” itself by poking fun at some aspect of the U.S. democratic setup is a very weak, and invalid, argument. Maybe in that case should we poke fun at Chinese communism by referring to the Soviets?
No, let’s talk about China rather than try to distract the argument by comparing uselessly with other countries: where people cannot even grow beards by their own choice … now, isn’t that absurd? If you try to deny it, maybe you need to visit Xinjiang. And if the U.S. were to disallow growing of moustaches tomorrow, that would be equally absurd.
N.M.Cheung says
@KRam
I don’t see any point arguing with you and I don’t know why do you bother to come to this site. To you everything is “a priori”, it exists without definition, without comparison, utopian ahistorical. To you democracy is something in your mind, it needs no explanation, context, just that China didn’t satisfy your definition which you refuses to say what it is. So U.S. is not, China is not, everything else is not. So Xi cannot possibly be popular in China because of what? That there is not an ideal election of one man one vote? Is there such ideal setting anywhere? Does one man one vote means anything in UN? So let’s talk about China only. Does China exist by herself? Does bread fall from the sky to feed 1.3 billion people? That it’s China’s own fault for the trade war because China feels proud of her achievements that triggered fears in U.S.? So there might be some restriction in some locality on growing beard or wearing hajib as symbol of resistance by some Muslims. That China does not have the right to regulate behavior in China by your utopian standards? That China should allow free access by internet from the West whether subversion by ISIS or pornography? What’s your ideal world?
alanking says
KRam believes what he reads from US main stream media about other countries, that’s where he gets his info from and he trusts that the info is accurate. Over the past 20 years, I painfully come to the realization most of what the US msm says about other countries are false, or purposely distorted to give some impression, mostly negative of course. This can be easily verified by anyone who travels widely to those so called “bad” countries and stay long enough to see for themselves. But most are of course, either too lazy, too poor, or too disinterested, to do so.
As I have said time and again, the most powerful part of the US is it’s media, because most people in the world believe it. It’s like gospel almost. The funniest part, which I will say again, is the fact that while people from different parts of the world mostly realized that the US carries alot of “fake” or “slated” news about their respective country, they accept hook line and sinker on US news on other countries that they know little about!
That is the power and beauty of the US msm. It’s like a weatherman that totally sucks at giving you accurate weather of your specific country, but you still believe it’s forecast for other countries. Ain’t that the most powerful weatherman in the world!
I used to believe all the western news, I mean, every time I travel, I stopped at the airport lounge, get a drink, sit down to read some papers, and of course, all the “respected” newspapers are from the West – NYT, Wapo, WSJ, Economist, etc,etc, and anyone who reads them feel a sense of “being informed”, and think to his/herself, yeah, now I understand… the feeling is almost exhilarating. Unfortunately,it’s like a tasty meal that satiate your mental quest for info that really is full of B.S.
LOL.
Charles Liu says
https://grayzoneproject.com/2018/08/23/un-did-not-report-china-internment-camps-uighur-muslims/